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<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Here's
something from Wikipedia on adult neurogenesis. The references are
below.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"<SPAN
lang=EN style="mso-ansi-language: EN"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000
size=3>Some authors (particularly </FONT><A
title="Elizabeth Gould (psychologist)"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Gould_(psychologist)"><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>Elizabeth Gould</FONT></SPAN></B></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>) have suggested that adult
neurogenesis may also occur in other areas including <U>primate neocortex</U>
(e.g., Shankle et al. 1999, Gould <I>et al.</I>, 1999b; Zhao <I>et al.</I>,
2003), although others, including Rakic (2002), have questioned the </FONT><A
title="Scientific method"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>scientific evidence</FONT></A><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3> of these findings; in the broad
sense, they suggest that the new </FONT><A title="Cell (biology)"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(biology)"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>cells</FONT></A><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3> may be
</FONT><A title=Glia href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glia"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>glia</FONT></A><FONT size=3><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000>. A recent paper by Ponti, Peretto,
and Bonfanti found evidence of <U>neuronal neurogenesis in the cerebellum </U>of
adult rabbits.</FONT><SUP id=cite_ref-0><A title=""
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-0">[1]</A><?xml:namespace prefix =
o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
/><o:p></o:p></SUP></FONT></FONT></SPAN>"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Therefore adult neurogenesis may not be restricted to the dentate gyrus.
The broader argument here is that the brains of humans and other animals have
mechanisms and processes in place to use these new cells, when they
occur, to either construct new networks or enhance existing networks. And
so adult neurogenesis not only provides the most concrete
biological evidence for the "blank slate" idea of ANN, but also the
evidence that there are mechanisms and processes in place to utilize it. Given
the fact that the brain goes through changes all the time (reconfiguration in
terms of new connections, synaptic adjustments), the "blank slate" for learning
need not always be from neurogenesis. Learning does take place even when
neurogenesis is restricted, but it becomes harder, as shown by many studies, one
of which is quoted below. To reiterate the broader point: the brain indeed has
mechanisms and processes to work with "blank slates," but the "blank slate" need
not always be from neurogenesis. Here's something from a study linking
learning and neurogenesis in crickets, from <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Cayr,
Scotto-Lomassese, Malaterre, Strambi and Strambi
[2007]</SPAN>:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
<P class=MsoFooter
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; tab-stops: .5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>“Since the
discovery of adult <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">neurogenesis</SPAN></STRONG>, a major issue is<SUP>
</SUP>the role of newborn neurons and the function-dependent regulation<SUP>
</SUP>of adult <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">neurogenesis</SPAN></STRONG>. We decided to use an
animal model with<SUP> </SUP>a relatively simple brain to address these
questions. In the<SUP> </SUP>adult cricket brain as in mammals, new neurons are
produced<SUP> </SUP>throughout life. This <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">neurogenesis</SPAN></STRONG> occurs in the main
integrative<SUP> </SUP>centers of the insect brain, the mushroom bodies (MBs),
where<SUP> </SUP>the neuroblasts responsible for their formation persist
after<SUP> </SUP>the imaginal molt. The rate of production of new neurons
is<SUP> </SUP><B>controlled</B> not only by internal cues such as morphogenetic
hormones<SUP> </SUP>but also by external environmental cues..…In search of a
functional role for the new cells,<SUP> </SUP>we specifically ablated MB
neuroblasts in young adults using<SUP> </SUP>brain-focused gamma ray
irradiation. We developed a <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">learning</SPAN></STRONG><SUP> </SUP>paradigm adapted
to the cricket, which we call the "escape paradigm."<SUP> </SUP>Using this
operant associative <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">learning</SPAN></STRONG> test, we showed that<SUP>
</SUP>crickets lacking <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">neurogenesis</SPAN></STRONG> exhibited delayed
<STRONG><SPAN style="BACKGROUND: white">learning</SPAN></STRONG> and<SUP>
</SUP>reduced memory retention of the task when olfactory cues were<SUP>
</SUP>used. Our results suggest that environmental cues are able to<SUP>
</SUP>influence adult <STRONG><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white">neurogenesis</SPAN></STRONG> and that, in turn, newly
generated<SUP> </SUP>neurons participate in olfactory integration, optimizing
<STRONG><SPAN style="BACKGROUND: white">learning</SPAN></STRONG><SUP>
</SUP>abilities of the animal, and thus its adaptation to its environment.”
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoFooter
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; tab-stops: .5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoFooter
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; tab-stops: .5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><STRONG></STRONG><B><o:p></o:p></B></FONT></SPAN> </P></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=484292818-04092008> </SPAN>M.
Cayr, S. Scotto-Lomassese, J. Malaterre, C. Strambi and A. Strambi,
“<STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">Understanding the Regulation and
Function of Adult Neurogenesis: Contribution from an Insect Model, the House
Cricket</SPAN>,” </STRONG><I>Chemical Senses Advance Access</I>, DOI
10.1093/chemse/bjm010, April 2, 2007. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#000000><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=484292818-04092008>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN
lang=EN style="mso-ansi-language: EN">Gould E, Reeves AJ, Graziano MS, Gross
CG. (1999b). Neurogenesis in the neocortex of adult primates. Science. Oct
15;286(5439):548-52. <A title=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10521353
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10521353">PMID 10521353</A>
<SUP><o:p></o:p></SUP></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list .5in"><CITE><SPAN
lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">Ponti G, Peretto B,
Bonfanti L (2008). "Genesis of neuronal and glial progenitors in the
cerebellar cortex of peripuberal and adult rabbits". </SPAN></CITE><CITE><SPAN
lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">PLoS
ONE</SPAN></CITE><CITE><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"> <B>3</B> (6): e2366. <A
title=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18523645
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18523645">PMID
18523645</A>.</SPAN></CITE><SPAN
title=ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Genesis+of+neuronal+and+glial+progenitors+in+the+cerebellar+cortex+of+peripuberal+and+adult+rabbits&rft.jtitle=PLoS+ONE&rft.date=2008&rft.volume=3&rft.issue=6&rft.au=Ponti+G%2C+Peretto+B%2C+Bonfanti+L&rft.pages=e2366&rft_id=info:pmid/18523645><SPAN
class=z3988><SPAN lang=EN
style="DISPLAY: none; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-hide: all"> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SUP><SPAN
lang=EN style="mso-ansi-language: EN"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SUP></LI></UL>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN
lang=EN style="mso-ansi-language: EN">Rakic P. Neurogenesis in adult primate
neocortex: an evaluation of the evidence. (2002). Nat Rev Neurosci.
Jan;3(1):65-71. <A title=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11823806
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11823806">PMID 11823806</A>
<SUP><o:p></o:p></SUP></SPAN></LI></UL>
<UL type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN
lang=EN style="mso-ansi-language: EN">Shankle, WR, Rafii, MS, Landing, BH, and
Fallon, JH (1999) Approximate doubling of the numbers of neurons in the
postnatal human cortex and in 35 specific cytoarchitectonic areas from birth
to 72 months. Pediatric and Developmental Pathology 2:244-259. </SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Unicode MS'; mso-ansi-language: EN"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in"><SPAN
lang=EN style="mso-ansi-language: EN">Zhao M, Momma S, Delfani K, Carlen M,
Cassidy RM, Johansson CB, Brismar H, Shupliakov O, Frisen J, Janson AM (2003).
Evidence for neurogenesis in the adult mammalian substantia nigra. Proc Natl
Acad Sci U S A. Jun 24;100(13):7925-30. <A
title=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12792021
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12792021">PMID 12792021</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></LI></UL>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
comp-neuro-bounces@neuroinf.org [mailto:comp-neuro-bounces@neuroinf.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Garrison Cottrell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03, 2008
8:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Asim Roy<BR><B>Cc:</B> CompNeuro List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Comp-neuro] Discussion - Kuhn - and brief comments<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I hate to jump into this, but...
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Speaking as a true novice, I would like to point out that the
neurogenesis that occurs on a daily basis is very specific to the dentate
gyrus; if someone knows of "daily neurogenesis" elsewhere, I would like to
hear about it. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This is not the same as learning in an ANN - these new neurons have a
specific function, which some of the best minds in our field are currently
trying to figure out <FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000>(see </FONT><EM><FONT class=Apple-style-span
color=#000000><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-STYLE: normal">Aimone</SPAN></FONT></EM><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>, J., </FONT><EM><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-STYLE: normal">Wiles</SPAN></FONT></EM><FONT
class=Apple-style-span color=#000000>, J., & Gage, F. (2006). Potential
role for adult neurogenesis in the encoding of time in new memories. Nature
Neuroscience, 9(6), 723-727. for one example).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It is only if you don't have a good weight change rule (e.g., STDP)
and/or you believe in localist encodings that you need neurogenesis to
learn.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>(shields up! ;-))</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>g.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 2, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Asim Roy wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">Asim
Roy</SPAN>: "a "blank slate" simply implies a network whose connection
weights and other parameters have not been set yet -"<BR><SPAN
class=281005119-02092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><STRONG><U>Jim Bower's
response</U></STRONG>: </SPAN>And, no such thing in biology, where
development doesn't end and learning begins - it is continuous, and
development probably recapitulating evolutionary history. Another
reason why the mainstream ANN models make no sense.</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT color=#0000ff>Jim, would
love to get some references for your statement:- "development probably
recapitulating evolutionary history." This really is the kind of process in
the brain that I am looking for. Just a few references would
suffice.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT color=#0000ff>By the way,
learning takes place during development too. Just ask anyone in cognitive
science. Development is not disassociated from learning. And ANN never
implied learning begins after development. That's a
misconception. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT color=#0000ff>On the
"blank slate" idea in ANN, just look at the phenomenon of adult
neurogenesis. Our adult brains generate new cells in the thousands on a
daily basis and they are part of the "blank slate" because they don't come
with ready-made connections or anything. The process that you refer to as
"<FONT color=#000000>development probably recapitulating evolutionary
history" </FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>is called "learning" in ANN. It's
that process that constructs networks out of these new cells and makes
them operational.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT color=#0000ff>Asim<SPAN
class=281005119-02092008><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Roy</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN class=531280007-01092008><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=281005119-02092008><FONT face=Arial size=2>Arizona State
University</FONT> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
comp-neuro-bounces@neuroinf.org [<A
href="mailto:comp-neuro-bounces@neuroinf.org">mailto:comp-neuro-bounces@neuroinf.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>james bower<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 27, 2008
9:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B> CompNeuro List<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Comp-neuro]
Discussion - Kuhn - and brief comments<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>A few brief comments -- given that school has started, and I now
have to prepare to "influence" the latest next generation.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>First a BIG POINT:</DIV>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Klaus Stiefel: pre-paradigmatic " What he meant by that
is a disagreement about the basic explainanda"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>No, Kuhn was focused on process to quote: "the early
developmental stages of most sciences (are) characterized by continual
competition between a number of distinct views of nature, each partially
derived from, and all roughly compatible with, the dictates of
scientific observation and method, (In pre-paradigmatic science)
what differentiates these various schools (is) not one or another
failure of method - they are all "scientific" - but what we shall come
to call their incommensurable ways of seeing the world and practicing
science within it" (pg 4 The Structure of Scientific Revolution.)
If this discussion over the last two months doesn't make it clear
that, as a field, we currently have "incommensurate ways of seeing the
world and practicing science within it" I don't know what does.
Kuhn goes on to say: "Men (sic) whose research is based on
shared paradigms are committed to the same rules and standards for
scientific practice." Again, this discussion makes it pretty clear
to me that we have not yet reached that point. In fact, (and I
would say reflecting this fact) the kind of discussion we have been
having here seldom ever happens as we are content (and being
pre-paradigmatic can get away with) agreeing to not discuss what we
don't agree on, another characteristic of pre-paradigmatic science --
and the reason I don't mind starting these discussions.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bryan Bishop: "There's a few too many layers of folk
psychology here,"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I agree, and have characterized all of biology as fundamentally
folkloric in nature -- based on story telling, with few real definitions
of anything. Something comp bio (neuro) will, I hope, eventually
fix.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And on to the approaches we don't agree on:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">Bryan Bishop</SPAN>: "I bet it
becomes clear that trying to do "natural language processing" from
statistical inferences doesn't get us as much hard science as the brain
could provide."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Of course, I agree -- and also agree that this field continues to
be distorted by what is essential snake oil we sell to the Department of
Defense about how studying the brain will help win wars. This
rather self serving commitment to "neuro-morphic engineering" as it is
now called, has been distorting our science for a while. In the
last 8 years even more dramatically. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Mario Negrello: "I'd say instead that some approaches gather
more acolytes, and then overflow others in sheer voluminous
quantity,"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Unfortunately, as just noted, very often related to who you are
selling the science to (funders) and also, unfortunately, how 'easy' the
methods are and therefore how many can jump on the bandwagon without
much preparation (or even knowledge of the brain in this case) --
20 years studying the realistic model of the Purkinje cell and counting.
</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bard Ermentrout: " I suspect that it would be too hard
to adjust parameters for realistic models "</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Is hard bad? Or is the brain, in fact, hard?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">Igor
Carron</SPAN>: "The groundwork of theory as you put it has,
in nuclear technology, always been a way to acquire and use
experimental findings."
<DIV><BR></DIV>And this, in fact, is the value of theory -- not to
capture 'truth' as many in comp neuro seem be believe, but to organize
experimental studies -- the more the theory is removed from the actual
structure of the brain - the more it exists by itself, disconnected from
the ability to improve, or more importantly to refute it.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">Asim
Roy</SPAN>: "a "blank slate" simply implies a network whose
connection weights and other parameters have not been set yet -"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And, no such thing in biology, where development doesn't end and
learning begins - it is continuous, and development probably
recapitulating evolutionary history. Another reason why the
mainstream ANN models make no sense.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Asim Roy: "Is there a way in computational neuroscience to verify
any of these theories of learning? "</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Wrong question.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Axel Hutt: " can (neuro)biology really treat
a population of some thousand elements ? "</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We will need to figure out how - numerous groups are working on
it.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Anibalmastobiza: "cerebellum, usually considered as a center
for motor processing and coordination just as it was for the
basal ganglia that now we know that is also involve in cognition"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While I appreciate the support, I have another question for
cognitive neuroscientists, how come anything that lights up in a brain
scan becomes a "cognitive center" seems weird to me. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Jim</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>==================================</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Dr. James M. Bower Ph.D.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Professor of Computational Neuroscience</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Research Imaging Center</DIV>
<DIV>University of Texas Health Science Center - </DIV>
<DIV>- San Antonio</DIV>
<DIV>8403 Floyd Curl Drive</DIV>
<DIV>San Antonio Texas 78284-6240</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Main Number: 210- 567-8100</DIV>
<DIV>Fax: 210 567-8152</DIV>Mobile: 210-382-0553
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
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<DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>Gary Cottrell 858-534-6640 FAX:
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